What's the problem with electric cars?

[Kev0607]

The Green's are the same as Nigel Farage. They weren't going to win the election (they knew it), so what they pledged literally means nothing anyway in the scale of things. If they aren't in power, they can't enforce it.

[Forg]

Originally Posted by Tannaton

It's just another form of extremism, they're mostly extremists going from one cause to another hijacking it for their own agenda - be that green matters, just stop oil, animal rights, islamic matters, etc.

Don't misconstrue that as I think all folk under the Green flag are like that - I salute anyone who truly is "green" and "off grid". But you only have to read the Green Part Election Manifesto to realise most of it was faintly ridiculous and undeliverable without serious and catastrophic consequences from failure.

The Greens, and this seems to be everywhere, have an approach of knowing that they're not going to get what they're "asking for", so they "ask for" WAY too much in the hope that settling in the middle-ground will get a better result.

It's like you're selling a car, you think it's worth £5000 so you set your asking-price to £10000, thinking that way someone will haggle you down to £5000 ... your logic being that if you set that price at £5000, someone's going to haggle you down to at least £4500 (and if they can't get that they'll just not buy your car because they won't feel they "won" the haggle-argument).

Except ... everyone else looks at the £10k ask & just says "ridiculous", and walks away.

Mind you, if you don't get £10k it'll probably be the end of human civilisation if not complete extinction, but that's a different issue.

[Moose Test]

Originally Posted by Forg

Except ... everyone else looks at the £10k ask & just says "ridiculous", and walks away.

And that's the problem. Major changes to society are made in small degrees. The Green Party isn't going to be "pushing", nor "holding the government to account" whilst their policies and targets are fantastical.

Personally, I think we should be moving to a "constitutional technocracy", wherein all policy relating to critical facets of society and governance (e.g. energy, health, education, defense) are removed from the purview of MPs and fixed-term governments and instead handled by expert departments tasked with producing long-term, coherent plans. The role of government in those aspects is then changed to funding and overseeing the execution of those policies.

"Everyone change places" every 5 to 15 years hasn't, isn't and won't bring about the change required.

[canis]

Originally Posted by Moose Test

Personally, I think we should be moving to a "constitutional technocracy", wherein all policy relating to critical facets of society and governance (e.g. energy, health, education, defense) are removed from the purview of MPs and fixed-term governments and instead handled by expert departments tasked with producing long-term, coherent plans. The role of government in those aspects is then changed to funding and overseeing the execution of those policies.

Yes!! I've been saying this for years. Schoolmasters running schools. Matrons running wards. Judges deciding justice. Government needs to keep it's micro-managing fingers out of business it doesn't understand, and focus on the job they're hired to do.

[Thekilt]

FYI, ULEZ and Congestion charge are two different things:

ULEX runs accross a much broader area which i think is pretty much up to the M25 now, which is specifically targetting tailpipe emmissions to try and reduce the emmissions in those areas (doesnt need to take into account CO2 from power stations as these are not within the ULEZ zone). Whether or not this is working i dont know, i dont live in london so cant comment.

Congestion charge is specifically for reducing the number of vehicles in the city of london area (map here: https://lruc.content.tfl.gov.uk/cong...e-area-map.pdf) and to be clear, this is for ALL vehicles, even electric. When i go into london, i either avoid central london, or if i am driving and parking in the congestion zone then i still have to pay the congestion charge even though im in an electric car.

Its been over a year since i have been driving electric, and to be honest i wouldnt go back to ICE or Hybrid. I now have a home charger installed which has removed a lot of the charging anxiety (range was never an issue) and charging out and about i havent come to a point where i have been anxious at all. No waiting for chargers, or faulty chargers etc. I have come close to not getting to one but still had 15 miles of range, so if there wasnt any availability then i can move to the next. I am stingy when it comes to paying for charging out and about so i check around the area for cheaper rates rather than paying higher prices and always try charging at home on the cheap rates and on greener days when there is excess power in the grid from wind generation (you receieve emails from Octopus Energy when these green days are).

for the past year, i have charged 4,405 kWh of energy into the car, and that has cost me £515. The car roughly does 3 miles of range per kWh, so a total of 13,215 miles at a cost of 3.8p per mile. in comparison, my 2.2l diesel used to cost us £200 a month for roughly 1,000 miles. most likely less as it was mainly local driving.

[don kalmar union]

I have to say that 'til this morning I have been pretty certain that I would see my life out with an IC engined car... come what may..

However. I found this road test of the new Stellantis/Alfa Romeo Junior Veloce EV referenced on an AR forum. Right now just about the only one of these things that I might... might just consider and it has likely taken a combination of the old Peugeot/Citroen habit of knocking out some fine handling smaller cars and whatever looks to be alive and well with the Alfa brand and its engineers' ability to design and fettle a proper driver's car.

I know nothing of the journo/influencer who did this test and probably would not like to know the price....

https://www.alfaowner.com/threads/re...#post-17948596

Don

[Forg]

The Junior is still only a gerlytruk. Pass.

[Kev0607]

Originally Posted by Thekilt

FYI, ULEZ and Congestion charge are two different things:

ULEX runs accross a much broader area which i think is pretty much up to the M25 now, which is specifically targetting tailpipe emmissions to try and reduce the emmissions in those areas (doesnt need to take into account CO2 from power stations as these are not within the ULEZ zone). Whether or not this is working i dont know, i dont live in london so cant comment.

Congestion charge is specifically for reducing the number of vehicles in the city of london area (map here: https://lruc.content.tfl.gov.uk/cong...e-area-map.pdf) and to be clear, this is for ALL vehicles, even electric. When i go into london, i either avoid central london, or if i am driving and parking in the congestion zone then i still have to pay the congestion charge even though im in an electric car.

Its been over a year since i have been driving electric, and to be honest i wouldnt go back to ICE or Hybrid. I now have a home charger installed which has removed a lot of the charging anxiety (range was never an issue) and charging out and about i havent come to a point where i have been anxious at all. No waiting for chargers, or faulty chargers etc. I have come close to not getting to one but still had 15 miles of range, so if there wasnt any availability then i can move to the next. I am stingy when it comes to paying for charging out and about so i check around the area for cheaper rates rather than paying higher prices and always try charging at home on the cheap rates and on greener days when there is excess power in the grid from wind generation (you receieve emails from Octopus Energy when these green days are).

for the past year, i have charged 4,405 kWh of energy into the car, and that has cost me £515. The car roughly does 3 miles of range per kWh, so a total of 13,215 miles at a cost of 3.8p per mile. in comparison, my 2.2l diesel used to cost us £200 a month for roughly 1,000 miles. most likely less as it was mainly local driving.

EV's are automatically exempt from ULEZ, as are compliant petrol (euro 4) and diesel (euro 6) vehicles.

However, EV's are not automatically exempt from the congestion charge.

I read that its your responsibility to tell TfL that you're driving an EV (and provide proof). Maybe that's why you've been charged in congestion zones in your EV? Maybe you haven't told them/registered for the discount. It also says that you can challenge any fees that you've been charged, but registering has to be done first.

You need to go on Transport for London's website and register for the "cleaner vehicle discount". You pay £10 a year for the cleaner vehicle discount, which will enable you to drive into congestion zones and not pay the £15 a day that ICE vehicles do currently.

So, although it isn't free, its still cheap. Its coming to an end though (no cleaner vehicle discounts). As of 2025, EV's will pay full whack congestion fees like ICE cars do.

https://motorway.co.uk/sell-my-car/g...gestion-charge

https://www.electrifying.com/blog/ar...o-avoid-a-fine

[don kalmar union]

Originally Posted by Forg

The Junior is still only a gerlytruk. Pass.

... 'spensive too, £46,000 or so in Veloce form.

I could buy two good used, lowish mileage 2.0l Giulia Veloce top spec. examples of that peerless saloon for that money... LSD, bigger brakes and so on, well rinsed by depreciation and with luck still some residual AR 5 year extended warranty and fixed price service plan.

NAH! bollocks to any EV for me... but... but we just might both have a fair opinion of that particular Alfa EV, once driven in Veloce form as tested by that fellow and also recently well received by a Top Gear journo. I doubt 'girly' at all.

Don.

[Thekilt]

Originally Posted by Kev0607

EV's are automatically exempt from ULEZ, as are compliant petrol (euro 4) and diesel (euro 6) vehicles.

However, EV's are not automatically exempt from the congestion charge.

I read that its your responsibility to tell TfL that you're driving an EV (and provide proof). Maybe that's why you've been charged in congestion zones in your EV? Maybe you haven't told them/registered for the discount. It also says that you can challenge any fees that you've been charged, but registering has to be done first.

You need to go on Transport for London's website and register for the "cleaner vehicle discount". You pay £10 a year for the cleaner vehicle discount, which will enable you to drive into congestion zones and not pay the £15 a day that ICE vehicles do currently.

So, although it isn't free, its still cheap. Its coming to an end though (no cleaner vehicle discounts). As of 2025, EV's will pay full whack congestion fees like ICE cars do.

https://motorway.co.uk/sell-my-car/g...gestion-charge

https://www.electrifying.com/blog/ar...o-avoid-a-fine

Fair point, i didnt see this last time we went to London (over a year ago) so i may do this, and the expiry by the end of next year is inline with other taxes being applied to EVs. We may be going again this year a few times so might be worth registering thanks for that!