Restoration Project Considerations - Any Thoughts??

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Steve 940

Dave, it is a separate building, so who knows??

Either way, I will just go with no roof lights and really good led strips, keep the Building Regs chap on side, a screen you never know when I might need a bit of leeway later on.

Cheers
Steve

Ah, i misunderstood Steve, i thought it was already built on the side of the house.
In that case, ignore me as i don't know much about building regs, just tiny bits i picked up over the years but those i do know are more to do with commercial/industrial buildings.

[Steve 940]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Ah, i misunderstood Steve, i thought it was already built on the side of the house.
In that case, ignore me as i don't know much about building regs, just tiny bits i picked up over the years but those i do know are more to do with commercial/industrial buildings.

No need to worry Dave, I was pretty much up to speed with these things, just I'm 20 odd years out of date😀😀

Cheers
Steve

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Steve 940

Think I'm more of a tightwad than you Alan😀😀 my budget for garage extension is only circa £10-£15k, as I'll be doing all the work myself. The only thing I will need to outsource is the roof trusses with raised collar ties to maximise headspace, as the span is around 7m.

I intend to concrete the floor with some nice thick (10"-12") areas reinforced just in case I might want to add a lift, but think it would get in the way so would not buy at the outset.

I don't at the moment envisage doing another full restoration, other than keeping my 940 on the go, plus the better halfs, but then again I do have a hankering for a nice little pre war Morris 8👍

Cheers
Steve

I wondered how you were getting on with this project Steve, and in particular on how the costs were going. I ask because I got a quote for extending my existing single garage to a (large) double which came out at £18,850 (materials, labour etc) - which would give me about an extra 20m^2. I retired from proper work a decade ago so I'm really out of date with project costs - that seemed expensive to me (I was expecting £12-14,000) but maybe it is fair and reasonable?

If you had a moment to comment on costs now you are into your project that would be helpful.

Alan

[Steve 940]

Originally Posted by Othen

I wondered how you were getting on with this project Steve, and in particular on how the costs were going. I ask because I got a quote for extending my existing single garage to a (large) double which came out at £18,850 (materials, labour etc) - which would give me about an extra 20m^2. I retired from proper work a decade ago so I'm really out of date with project costs - that seemed expensive to me (I was expecting £12-14,000) but maybe it is fair and reasonable?

If you had a moment to comment on costs now you are into your project that would be helpful.

Alan

Hi Alan,
I will try to clarify my workings for you, currently I’m trying to make the most of the good weather to crack on with my long list of roof repairs and decorating.

Mine is probably similar, original single skin brick walls with pitched tile roof circa 5.1m x 3.1m, new one is 6.2m long x 7m wide.

I’m doing the work myself, and ballpark figures I have that date from 2022

Groundwork - £1500 includes grab lorry for muck away, drainage, old brick hardcore I can dispose of to the brother in law for farm track repairs.

Concrete slab - one area I will get help with as I want a power floated floor to prevent concrete dusting up, and will put a non slip epoxy paint on once finished - £2500 for 150mm thick slab reinforced in case I want to put a lift in

Walls - standard LBC common flettons - £3500 including sand and cement, I have my own mixer.

Roof - standard factory made to measure truss roof, with raised tie beam to maximise headroom, albeit still limited at around 2.3m. Quotes done in 2022 were £1216 for bog standard, and £1683 for raised tie version. Allow say 50% increase so say £2500

Tiles - the old roof tiles will do half the new roof so new tiles account for only one pitch so circa £1500. I have roofing membrane and battens.

So basic structure is circa £11,500

Then all the costly bits, roller door around 4m wide I had a quote at around £2800, electrics I will run cable myself and get my next door neighbour to connect to meter tails as he is an electrician.

I reckon to get a nice workshop with insulation in the roof, lots of lighting etc, and piped air compressor ring main and dust extraction setup will be around £15 - £20k could be less / more.

I tend to spend on the stuff that is a bugger to upgrade later on, eg concrete slab. I probably won’t need as headroom is limited, but for a bit of re-mesh and an extra 50mm depth of concrete over 42m2 is only 2.1 cube extra

I know you like to plan for all eventualities, but I would certainly expect a fit chap like you could do the job yourself, save more than a few quid, and it would be an enjoyable project.👍

Beast of luck, I know you will win the race to compete the workshop first 😀😀

Cheers
Steve

[4x4]

Originally Posted by Steve 940

Hi Alan,

Concrete slab - one area I will get help with as I want a power floated floor to prevent concrete dusting up, and will put a non slip epoxy paint on once finished - £2500 for 150mm thick slab reinforced in case I want to put a lift in

I built my garage in 2008, it was something I had never done before and a massive learning curve with many hours of research before tacking each task.

From my experience the chances of the floor drying with dust on the surface is very high, I had three separate 6.7m x 3.5m slabs poured on 3 separate occasions in the hope of finishing to a perfect surface but all dried with a powdery surface even though all precautions were taken. The way to remedy this was to allow the concrete to cure for 12 months then hire a surface grinder and you will finish with a perfect concrete floor

Floor grinding machine (messy but worth it)


Floor cured for 12 months then surface ground

Originally Posted by Steve 940

Hi Alan,

Roof - standard factory made to measure truss roof, with raised tie beam to maximise headroom, albeit still limited at around 2.3m.

My planning permission was for a pit in the floor, unfortunately when the hole was excavated it filled with water to the water table level which would have been an expensive job to remedy and the hole was filled in again. I spoke to my architect and he told me to order two extra roof trusses and double them up above the pit area and we can open up the attic space.

The trusses before they were altered


Using 6x2 timbers, plenty coach-bolts, screws and splice-plates I strengthened the roof, once everything was in place I cut the bottom truss chords to open the roof space allowing me the extra height required to fit a lift



Double truss second from the wall


Double truss on right of picture






Plenty space to lift cars and even people carriers

[Steve 940]

Hi 4x4,

Some great points there, and yes I totally agree normal ‘domestic’ concreting methods mean that a dusty surface is almost guaranteed.

A very good pair of friends used to own and run a civil engineering business involved in pouring and finishing concrete on some of the local US air bases for hangers etc. along with commercial large pours on supermarkets and suchlike.

They introduced me to the wonders of a power float, something like this for a small job such as workshop floor

https://brandonhirestation.com/concr...wer-float-hire

They used large twin paddle ride on float machines on the commercial jobs.

The key skill, is when to use the float?? too soon and the paddles tear it up, too late, and well you can guess the outcome.😀 On a good pour and finish, the surface ends up almost with a mirror polish similar to that you see in B&Q etc.

My trouble is that the said friends are no longer with us, but I have found one of their old employees who has agreed to do the pour and float.

On the lift side your set up makes us rather envious, but unfortunately my trusses run at 90 degrees to yours, so my doors are on the gable end, and to cut trusses and brace similar to yours would mean cutting almost all of them as an estate car needs a lot of free space for roof clearance.

I suppose I could minimise by only using the lift with the car driven in rather than reversed in, as obviously that needs much more roof space for estates.

I will just revisit with the truss manufacturers prior to placing order, to just double check for maximising clearance.

Cheers
Steve

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Steve 940

Hi Alan,
I will try to clarify my workings for you, currently I’m trying to make the most of the good weather to crack on with my long list of roof repairs and decorating.

Mine is probably similar, original single skin brick walls with pitched tile roof circa 5.1m x 3.1m, new one is 6.2m long x 7m wide.

I’m doing the work myself, and ballpark figures I have that date from 2022

Groundwork - £1500 includes grab lorry for muck away, drainage, old brick hardcore I can dispose of to the brother in law for farm track repairs.

Concrete slab - one area I will get help with as I want a power floated floor to prevent concrete dusting up, and will put a non slip epoxy paint on once finished - £2500 for 150mm thick slab reinforced in case I want to put a lift in

Walls - standard LBC common flettons - £3500 including sand and cement, I have my own mixer.

Roof - standard factory made to measure truss roof, with raised tie beam to maximise headroom, albeit still limited at around 2.3m. Quotes done in 2022 were £1216 for bog standard, and £1683 for raised tie version. Allow say 50% increase so say £2500

Tiles - the old roof tiles will do half the new roof so new tiles account for only one pitch so circa £1500. I have roofing membrane and battens.

So basic structure is circa £11,500

Then all the costly bits, roller door around 4m wide I had a quote at around £2800, electrics I will run cable myself and get my next door neighbour to connect to meter tails as he is an electrician.

I reckon to get a nice workshop with insulation in the roof, lots of lighting etc, and piped air compressor ring main and dust extraction setup will be around £15 - £20k could be less / more.

I tend to spend on the stuff that is a bugger to upgrade later on, eg concrete slab. I probably won’t need as headroom is limited, but for a bit of re-mesh and an extra 50mm depth of concrete over 42m2 is only 2.1 cube extra

I know you like to plan for all eventualities, but I would certainly expect a fit chap like you could do the job yourself, save more than a few quid, and it would be an enjoyable project.👍

Beast of luck, I know you will win the race to compete the workshop first 😀😀

Cheers
Steve

Thank you Steve, and also 4x4, that was really helpful.

My intention is much simpler - I have a 5.6m x 3.1m single garage with single brick walls and a flat GRP roof, I want almost exactly the same (taking the opportunity to make it a bit wider at 3.7m next to it and a doorway provided in between. This gives me an additional 20m^2. I want to keep the roofline the same (so as not to upset my neighbours or the council - the way it is I can do this under the permitted rights) so unfortunately I can't go for something like 4x4's tall roof solution.

I'm not sure that you have captured all the materials costs Steve, but the figures you have provided are really helpful. Let's say materials will be £20,000 for your project, mine is roughly half the size so 10 grand would be about right. In that case employing a contractor would cost me about 8 grand in labour, plant and services. Whilst I agree I could probably do the whole job myself, I don't think I'd get it finished before the end of this year. The advantage of using a contractor is I get the whole package in the second fortnight of August - so I can get my winter projects installed in September. The contractor is offering a turnkey solution to include a fitted roller door, less the electrical fit (I'll do that myself - it is just extending the existing lighting and radial power circuits - 240V/16A will do just nicely).

On balance I'm tending towards paying up and getting the project done by the end of August. Whilst it might be an interesting project I'd rather spend my time on car and bike projects. Your figures have been really useful, I think I was just a bit behind the times with prices when I thought it might come in at £12-14,000.



Addendum: in my experience a good (and cheap) way of controlling concrete dust is by painting - that worked well at my last house and is pretty durable.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

Addendum: in my experience a good (and cheap) way of controlling concrete dust is by painting - that worked well at my last house and is pretty durable.

An epoxy resin based paint is also more or less self-leveling and once set (you need patience!) will be as hard and durable as it needs to be for most things. I would use a lift (perhaps like the scissor lifts previously discussed) or a pad under any jacks to minimise impact denting/point loading of the surface to be on the safe side though.

Also you can choose the colour you want the floor that way. Another option is the interlocking polyurethane (?) tiles available from places like Machine Mart.

A choice of materials as it happens with solutions for different sizes, finishes etc :

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/catego...+Flooring&c=60

All depends how you want to finish the floor really.

[4x4]

If you go down the route of floor tiles I would advise buying the best you can afford, the cheap tiles are crap and you'll soon have to replace them

I have 7mm tiles from Ecotiles, they have been down for almost 15 years now and apart from some discolouring on the grey tiles (which I was informed would happen due to a reaction between the tile pigments and hot tyres) the rest of the tiles still look like new

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by 4x4

If you go down the route of floor tiles I would advise buying the best you can afford, the cheap tiles are crap and you'll soon have to replace them

I have 7mm tiles from Ecotiles, they have been down for almost 15 years now and apart from some discolouring on the grey tiles (which I was informed would happen due to a reaction between the tile pigments and hot tyres) the rest of the tiles still look like new

Nice to see a proper Rover sign near the roller shutter door.

Sort of surprised you don't have a Volvo one somewhere or is it just out of shot?