What's the problem with electric cars?

[baggy798]

No market for old EVs... or new ones!

+ YouTube Video

"BEVs are dead - stick a fork in them.

They died for 3 horrible reasons:
1) Range anxiety - 300 miles is a joke - 1,000 is what is needed per charge.

2) Charging anxiety - taking a trip and your battery is at 15% SOC and the charging station you need to use is full with a 1 hour wait time is to be expected.

3) Depreciation anxiety - BEVs lose 1/3 their MSRP per year and at 5 years are worthless.

RIP BEVs, you had your chance and blew it.
Long live the hybrid or, better yet, gasoline..."

[The Thong]

Originally Posted by baggy798

No market for old EVs... or new ones!


"BEVs are dead - stick a fork in them.

They died for 3 horrible reasons:
1) Range anxiety - 300 miles is a joke - 1,000 is what is needed per charge.

2) Charging anxiety - taking a trip and your battery is at 15% SOC and the charging station you need to use is full with a 1 hour wait time is to be expected.

3) Depreciation anxiety - BEVs lose 1/3 their MSRP per year and at 5 years are worthless.

RIP BEVs, you had your chance and blew it.
Long live the hybrid or, better yet, gasoline..."

If a planned and protracted roll out had been planned there was every chance it would have worked. Then politics and the Eco zealots seized it. Restoring its credibility will be a long road.

TT

[Volvocano]

It's only a matter of time before certain 5th columnists work out what effective terror weapons burning electric cars are. Putting the building-twisting ultra hot fires aside, insurance companies will flatly refuse to insure them inside a building making ownership or use practically impossible - and yet they'll be the only cars you're allowed to buy! Car park fires are nothing new - but go take a look at Luton car park 2 - the steel structure of the building buckled - that's new - and that's with only one in ten cars there being electric. Imagine a car park full of electric cars going up!

[Tannaton]

Originally Posted by Volvocano

It's only a matter of time before certain 5th columnists work out what effective terror weapons burning electric cars are. Putting the building-twisting ultra hot fires aside, insurance companies will flatly refuse to insure them inside a building making ownership or use practically impossible - and yet they'll be the only cars you're allowed to buy! Car park fires are nothing new - but go take a look at Luton car park 2 - the steel structure of the building buckled - that's new - and that's with only one in ten cars there being electric. Imagine a car park full of electric cars going up!

Nonsense.

A fully charged large BEV in destructive thermal runaway (ie on fire…) will give off broadly a tenth of the heat energy of 80 litres on diesel. And the batteries dont leak burning fuel into the drains and lower levels….

[Volvocano]

Originally Posted by Tannaton

Nonsense.

A fully charged large BEV in destructive thermal runaway (ie on fire…) will give off broadly a tenth of the heat energy of 80 litres on diesel. And the batteries dont leak burning fuel into the drains and lower levels….

Petrol burns off relatively quickly - a flash fire, diesel requires a fair amount of heat before it goes up. Both types of fire can be tackled by fire fighters. Lithium batteries burn at a very high temperature and often with explosive consequences - they also produce their own oxygen when burning making the fire practically impossible to extinguish and they remain dangerous for several days after the initial fire.

[Forg]

Originally Posted by Tannaton

It will be Hydrogen, because it’s the only realistic option to retrofit into billions of cars already in existence.

Nope. The concept is very similar to petrol or diseasal, but in reality so much needs to be changed that it's not economically-viable. Tanks in service-stations need to change, all the delivery methods need to change, but more importantly you need to rip out & replace the tank in cars with high-pressure tanks & replace the fuel-delivery system & change or reprogram the electronics etc ... that level of change costs too much for it to be worthwhile in cars that people use for transport.

If you want to keep your Amazon wagon on the road 'cos you love it, and petrol is becoming rare or too expensive, then yeah if H2 supply-systems were to become widespread (eg. for fuel-cell cars) then because of your attachment it's likely to be worth spending 15 grand on that. But it's not worth spending 15 grand on the vast majority of commuters that're worth 7 grand.

Originally Posted by Volvocano

Petrol burns off relatively quickly - a flash fire, diesel requires a fair amount of heat before it goes up. Both types of fire can be tackled by fire fighters. Lithium batteries burn at a very high temperature and often with explosive consequences - they also produce their own oxygen when burning making the fire practically impossible to extinguish and they remain dangerous for several days after the initial fire.

Per-electric-vehicle there are many many fewer fires & a lot less damage from fire, than there are per-ICE-vehicle.

All the wild speculation & fear surrounding electric vehicle fires is BS spread by Murdoch media 'cos the people who buy their products are all mired in the oil industry ... if you're repeating it, you need to look at the facts, not the scare-stories.
I'm not a fan of wheeled-fridges, never have been. They're the epitome of dull. But I won't repeat the garbage invented by the conservative-funded press about them.

The real POSSIBLE problem with EV's is current battery tech, and the mining of battery components. That's real. It's REALLY hard to work out whether it's truly worse than <insert Exxon Valdez here><insert Deepwater Horizon here>, but that's where the problems are. Truck-weight cars collapsing car-parks & EV-fires and the fact they're all ugly blobs are a distraction 'cos the Murdoch press knows no conservative gives a flying expletive about 3rd-world 10yo children being forced at gunpoint to mine lithiums with their bare hands.

[Volvocano]

Originally Posted by Forg

Per-electric-vehicle there are many many fewer fires & a lot less damage from fire, than there are per-ICE-vehicle.

All the wild speculation & fear surrounding electric vehicle fires is BS spread by Murdoch media 'cos the people who buy their products are all mired in the oil industry ... if you're repeating it, you need to look at the facts, not the scare-stories.
I'm not a fan of wheeled-fridges, never have been. They're the epitome of dull. But I won't repeat the garbage invented by the conservative-funded press about them.

The real POSSIBLE problem with EV's is current battery tech, and the mining of battery components. That's real. It's REALLY hard to work out whether it's truly worse than <insert Exxon Valdez here><insert Deepwater Horizon here>, but that's where the problems are. Truck-weight cars collapsing car-parks & EV-fires and the fact they're all ugly blobs are a distraction 'cos the Murdoch press knows no conservative gives a flying expletive about 3rd-world 10yo children being forced at gunpoint to mine lithiums with their bare hands.

What's all this Murdoch press nonsense? In my 40+ years as a motorist I have experienced three car fires, two of which I extinguished with my own on-board £5 (at the time) Argos extinguisher, the third was attended and dealt with by the Fire Brigade, the latter only ended up with damage to rubber components and a melted plastic bonnet (Citroen BX) the car was back on the road in a week - yes petrochemicals leak and can burn. But the fires are usually manageable. An electric car fire is NOT manageable - it's a major event. Even if you cover a burning EV in foam used for containment of nuclear fires the batteries still burn away at incredibly high temperatures and often explode. I repeat - you CANNOT EXTINGUISH a lithium battery fire once it has taken hold.

I've seen the result of multi-story car park fires many times - the recent Luton one twisted the structure of the building - that's a new phenomenon. The cargo ship that caught fire with 4,000 cars on board (the Felicity Ace) suffered similar catastrophic structural failure and sank - a very rare event. Petrochemical cars can be (and are) shipped with minimal fuel - you cannot take the fuel out of an EV for transport.

I agree about the mining - you need to dig up and process about 30,000 tonnes of ore to produce one EV battery - they are infinitely worse for the environment than petrol cars. I'm not against EVs, I like the quiet and the acceleration - but they shouldn't be forced on us - they are also involved in 8% increased number of fatal collisions with pedestrians, having never hit a cat in decades and a million + of miles of motoring I have run over two cats in my XC90 T8 and had several near misses - even cats can't hear them coming! But I digress, my point is they do represent a graver fire risk than petrol/diesel cars. Even if it turns out they go up in flames less frequently - the consequences of EV fires are far worse due to the inability to contain or tackle the fires.

[The Thong]

Originally Posted by Forg

Nope. The concept is very similar to petrol or diseasal, but in reality so much needs to be changed that it's not economically-viable. Tanks in service-stations need to change, all the delivery methods need to change, but more importantly you need to rip out & replace the tank in cars with high-pressure tanks & replace the fuel-delivery system & change or reprogram the electronics etc ... that level of change costs too much for it to be worthwhile in cars that people use for transport.

If you want to keep your Amazon wagon on the road 'cos you love it, and petrol is becoming rare or too expensive, then yeah if H2 supply-systems were to become widespread (eg. for fuel-cell cars) then because of your attachment it's likely to be worth spending 15 grand on that. But it's not worth spending 15 grand on the vast majority of commuters that're worth 7 grand.


Per-electric-vehicle there are many many fewer fires & a lot less damage from fire, than there are per-ICE-vehicle.

All the wild speculation & fear surrounding electric vehicle fires is BS spread by Murdoch media 'cos the people who buy their products are all mired in the oil industry ... if you're repeating it, you need to look at the facts, not the scare-stories.
I'm not a fan of wheeled-fridges, never have been. They're the epitome of dull. But I won't repeat the garbage invented by the conservative-funded press about them.

The real POSSIBLE problem with EV's is current battery tech, and the mining of battery components. That's real. It's REALLY hard to work out whether it's truly worse than <insert Exxon Valdez here><insert Deepwater Horizon here>, but that's where the problems are. Truck-weight cars collapsing car-parks & EV-fires and the fact they're all ugly blobs are a distraction 'cos the Murdoch press knows no conservative gives a flying expletive about 3rd-world 10yo children being forced at gunpoint to mine lithiums with their bare hands.

Shhhhhhhh……. But we don’t want this sort of negativity. Now go and buy an EV and save a polar bear. This is what happens when you over promise. Wasn’t we all supposed to be going around in autonomous taxi cabs and calling up autonomous cars on the internet to take us to the seaside? There’s another idea that’s been sunk by reality

TT

[Whippy]

Lithium battery cells? Totally safe

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/24/w...uth-korea.html

Nothing to see here, move along now.

[Forg]

^ Meh, piddling stuff! Your lame 22 dead people can't compete with my 581 dead in the 1947 Texas refinery explosion!!