What's the problem with electric cars?

[Moose Test]

Originally Posted by The Thong

It just ain’t gunna happen. India have already said they’re going to keep running coal fired power stations for thirty years at least. That’s just one country, what about China, S American countries and other poor nations who can’t afford to splash the cash on the electric dream? As we withdraw from the fossil fuel rat race any gains we make will be absorbed by other polluting countries.

And that's the sad fact of it.

I have no issue with those minded to protect the future of our planet, if indeed at this late stage it still has one. I believe the transition to 'clean' energy is the right thing to do (but I also believe that nuclear is a necessary part of that right now, possibly as SMR, and 'clean enough'). However, when we start that in earnest, there's nowhere for energy costs to go but upwards and unless we can precipitate change in those with whom we trade, it will simply be another nail in the coffin for domestic production. We'll just be offshoring the burning of polluting fossil fuels.

It's the arrogance of a 'green' party that assumes the electorate is too ignorant to recognise that spending 5x to 10x over and above the cost of overhead grid ties will do anything other than push up energy prices and hence move pollution elsewhere that really annoys me. They're nothing more than another populist party, telling a different section of voters want they want to hear in return for tax payer funded tickets to the gravy train whilst knowing full well that they can't deliver any of it.

[don kalmar union]

Originally Posted by Moose Test

And that's the sad fact of it.



It's the arrogance of a 'green' party that assumes the electorate is too ignorant .

Odd word Arrogance to describe those of a Green persuasion?

Don.

[Forg]

ULEZ charges and congestion charges are two different things aren't they?
ULEZ's are about trying to reduce localised pollution, whereas congestion charges are more about freeing-up transport aren't they?

I understand the problem with the entire developing world continuing to CO2; I guess if nobody ever starts, then it will never happen at all. And it needs to happen.
I kinda reckon we're doomed though.

[Kev0607]

Originally Posted by GMcL

I think it right ALL vehicles pay the congestion charge. It doesn't matter what propels the vehicle a car is a car takes up space on the road and adds to congestion. That charge is meant as a deterrent.

I struggle more with ULEZ. There's no tailpipe emissions from an EV but there is an equivalent CO2g/kWh at the power station and peversely the cheapest electricity for charging your car (overnight) is the dirtiest in terms of equivalent CO2g/kWh as there's no solar feed then and gas or coal is the fallback.

I agree. Just because a vehicle is electric doesn't mean they should have been exempt from a congestion charge... That wasn't going to last forever. I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did. I guess it was a way for people to "jump ship" from a regular petrol/diesel car that had to pay the congestion charge of £15 per day to EV's that were free. £15 per day is a lot if you're in the city regularly...

Originally Posted by The Thong

I thought the whole point of ULEZ and Congestion Charge exclusion was to encourage people to buy less or zero polluting cars in a City where they’re always banging on about the pollution levels. It seems money now trumps people’s health and wellbeing. I’m waiting to see if the 2035 extension is kept or they’re going to bring it forward to 2030. It’d be nice if the government would just talk an adult decision and get on with it. It seems to be a thing that our government no matter what party is in charge seems to be incapable of doing. Give people direction and if it all goes Pete Tong, have the balls to stand up and be counted.
Fingers crossed, this government will give everyone an idea of what’s happening next

TT

Partially. I think its about money myself. Sadiq Khan won't release any data. In fact, there was an article in the Telegraph a few months ago that said he tried to "silence" Scientists who had basically disputed the whole scheme saying it makes minimal impact to pollution. What does that say? He's covering his own back side, but ULEZ is a cash cow that generates millions and it isn't going to disappear.

There's a chap on YouTube who recorded air quality data before ULEZ was expended and after. Guess what? The pollution levels have risen! Its no wonder Khan is hiding the details. So people can drive "compliant" cars, but is it really making a difference? The fact that the ULEZ zone is surrounded by airports doesn't help either. There's more pollution from the planes and London underground, but there's no word of that. Figurately speaking, its like putting a clean air zone next to a coal power plant.

Starmer reckons he's going to bring the ban on the sale of new petrol/diesel vehicles forward to 2030, which isn't long away at all. Car manufacturers have already started ditching EV plans for new ICE vehicles because Sunak changed the date last year to 2035. Now if 2030 comes to fruition, they'll have to go back to EV due to Government regulation. Its a clown show really. The Government don't know what they're doing. The manufacturers, through no fault of their own, don't really know either!

Originally Posted by The Thong

It just ain’t gunna happen. India have already said they’re going to keep running coal fired power stations for thirty years at least. That’s just one country, what about China, S American countries and other poor nations who can’t afford to splash the cash on the electric dream? As we withdraw from the fossil fuel rat race any gains we make will be absorbed by other polluting countries. Will they follow our example? Unlikely. The only advantage will be localised pollution reduction and that’s about it. For the rest of planet earth, it’ll be business as usual

TT

That's why ULEZ is a scam. The UK's carbon footprint contributes less than 1% to global emissions, yet we have the biggest emissions zone in the world (London). Go figure.

The big countries need to do more. We're literally ******* in the wind.

[Tannaton]

Originally Posted by don kalmar union

Odd word Arrogance to describe those of a Green persuasion?

Don.

Having read their manifesto - I would say it’s wholly appropriate.

There are those of a certain green persuasion, and those of a certain persuasion who would say it is green…..

[Moose Test]

Originally Posted by don kalmar union

Odd word Arrogance to describe those of a Green persuasion?

Don.

As I've explained very carefully and at length already, not the many people of genuine good environmental conscience and values but this specific organisation of charlatans and grifters masquerading under the flag of Green for their own personal gain, ego and infantile idealism.

[canis]

Originally Posted by Kev0607

... is surrounded by airports doesn't help either ...

*mutters something about zero tax*

[Moomoo]

Originally Posted by Moose Test

As I've explained very carefully and at length already, not the many people of genuine good environmental conscience and values but this specific organisation of charlatans and grifters masquerading under the flag of Green for their own personal gain, ego and infantile idealism.

I have such living near me, Just Stop Oil , boyfriend, spends thousands on legal fees supporting crack-pot , illegal solar panels in a conservation area and drives a 20 year old diesel car that smokes like a b*s*a*d.

Inherited wealth , of course.

[Tannaton]

Originally Posted by Moose Test

As I've explained very carefully and at length already, not the many people of genuine good environmental conscience and values but this specific organisation of charlatans and grifters masquerading under the flag of Green for their own personal gain, ego and infantile idealism.

It's just another form of extremism, they're mostly extremists going from one cause to another hijacking it for their own agenda - be that green matters, just stop oil, animal rights, islamic matters, etc.

Don't misconstrue that as I think all folk under the Green flag are like that - I salute anyone who truly is "green" and "off grid". But you only have to read the Green Part Election Manifesto to realise most of it was faintly ridiculous and undeliverable without serious and catastrophic consequences from failure.

[don kalmar union]

Originally Posted by Moose Test

As I've explained very carefully and at length already, not the many people of genuine good environmental conscience and values but this specific organisation of charlatans and grifters masquerading under the flag of Green for their own personal gain, ego and infantile idealism.

I may have missed something here in that I cannot figure out which specific 'green' branded organisation you are so incensed about. Could you please point me in their direction and I will have a poke around.

Don.