Lower Control Arm Replacement

[Thanatos]

if you need to change the bolts as i had to on my c70 which is the same design in principle you need to lift the engine and gear box 4" to get them out

[R-P]

Originally Posted by martinrpeachey

Maybe I've missed something here but why is there talk of removing stub axles and drop links etc to change a wishbone?

Because otherwise it won't go back in

Originally Posted by martinrpeachey

Levering the wishbone to get the bolt back in?

The bolt is 5cm lower than the hole it has to go into. When levering the wishbone down, it still is 5mm too high. So the only option left is somehow getting the bolt higher. Hence removing the stub axles. (assuming that's the English term for the two bolts of which the upper one determines the camber)

Originally Posted by martinrpeachey

1. Don't just jack up one side of the car, the action of the wheel that's on the ground will, via the anti roll bar, force the raised wheel upward, making it difficult to align the wishbone.

I did not notice any significant difference with one or both wheels up in the air. In both cases we couldn't get it back in...

Originally Posted by martinrpeachey

2. you don't need to raise the engine to get the wishbone bolts out - you don't actually need to remove the bolts, just undo them until they aren't holding the wishbone any more.

Yes, you do need to raise the engine in my case to get them out. I agree you don't HAVE to get them out unless you renew them (as Volvo suggests I think, which I didn't do). Unless you have the proper spanner, you WILL need to raise the engine. Too flat, it won't reach the head. Too deep, it won't fit between the engine and the frame. To get a socket on, you probably have to raise it as well.

Originally Posted by martinrpeachey

3. Removing the ball joint from the stub axle is an arse, no easy way around that I'm afraid.

We only got it out of the wishbone (not sure that is what you mean) with a bearingpuller. Given that fact, it made sense that getting it in would be nigh on impossible.
Maybe this shows our strut/suspension is longer than yours, maybe I (and my father in law and my brother in law, both technically minded) are too dumb.

Originally Posted by martinrpeachey

4 Always ALWAYS keep an eye on the driveshaft, don't let it pop out or you'll end up with a massive ball-ache! Wiring it up and out the way is a good idea, as above.

Totally agree. I managed to screw up the joint in the gearbox. Made the decision to replace that (damaged but still sealed) gaitor easier

[pgm]

I managed to remove both wishbones replace the bushes and refit them without any difficulty albeit on a S80. I didnt even read any howto's video's ect I just had the car up on some blocks

Paul

[martinrpeachey]

Originally Posted by R-P

Because otherwise it won't go back in



The bolt is 5cm lower than the hole it has to go into. When levering the wishbone down, it still is 5mm too high. So the only option left is somehow getting the bolt higher. Hence removing the stub axles. (assuming that's the English term for the two bolts of which the upper one determines the camber)


I did not notice any significant difference with one or both wheels up in the air. In both cases we couldn't get it back in...

Is there any chance you could post a picture or two of the situation? I may have a quick fix for you but I need to actually see what's going on.

Yes, you do need to raise the engine in my case to get them out. I agree you don't HAVE to get them out unless you renew them (as Volvo suggests I think, which I didn't do). Unless you have the proper spanner, you WILL need to raise the engine. Too flat, it won't reach the head. Too deep, it won't fit between the engine and the frame. To get a socket on, you probably have to raise it as well.

I used a ring spanner with no problem at all but like you I didn't completely remove the bolts as they were in good condition.

We only got it out of the wishbone (not sure that is what you mean) with a bearingpuller. Given that fact, it made sense that getting it in would be nigh on impossible.
Maybe this shows our strut/suspension is longer than yours, maybe I (and my father in law and my brother in law, both technically minded) are too dumb.

I tapped the ball joint out with a screwdriver and a hammer as I didn't have a puller to hand - it took ages! Getting it back in is easy as it's tapered. Just align it properly to start with and tighten the bolts, giving it a gentle tap with a hammer when the bolts go tight.

Totally agree. I managed to screw up the joint in the gearbox. Made the decision to replace that (damaged but still sealed) gaitor easier

My biggest regret from writing the how-to guide for the front bush replacement was not making a fuss about the inner CV and how much of a risk it is when working around it.

I'm still struggling to understand why you guys had so much trouble with the wishbones (control arms), it should be an easy (kinda) job and I doubt they made it easier for the UK market (remember, our steering wheel, pedals and brake servo are all on the wrong side). If you can post a few pictures, I'd be really interested in having a look and offering some help if I can.

[R-P]

@PGM: my brother-in-law did his S80 alone, we struggled doing my V70 with the three of us (although we hardly ever really worked on the same thing all at once)


I didn't take pics and everything is back where it belongs (and it passed the Dutch MOT). So I am not going to take it apart any time soon...

My apologies for having trouble with the English terms. I think my grasp of the English language is quite good, but at these times when discussing technical issues, I quickly run into my limited vocabulary...

I think the issue is which of the three points of the control arm has to be attached first.
We tried various options, but came to the conclusion the rear-engine one (big fat bolt) is probably the hardest, so we concluded that one should go in first. Then the front two are aligned as well, so even though we didn't tighten them, it makes sense to also screw those in a little.
But then you get to the pivoting bolt on the outside, and that simply is too low. We tried lifting the dangling disk(-and everything else that makes up the 'wheel' at that point), but it only has one pivotpoint (the suspension), so it's nearly impossible to lift without the chance of it slipping off the jack or whatever device you use to lift it.
So even though we tried that numerous times, it simply didn't work. This might be where we pulled out the inner CV-joint. And we used 3(!) ratched straps to keep the wheel in place and pull it inward, but to no avail... (By that time, we were basically trying to pull the CV-joint back together whilst it was possibly not in the correct position...).

The problem on both sides was that in resting positions, the pivoting outer bolt that should attach to the control arms outer connection point are not in the same horizontal plane. Not even close. Even with the suspension rachetet slightly upward (maybe 2cm), the hole in the control arm was at least 2" (5cm, probably closer to 3") lower than the bolt that should go into it from the top.

In this vid, the bolt is IN at 2:15, OUT at 2:22 and IN again at 2:35.
In my case those few seconds literally cost me hours and hours. And the way it is positioned at 2:35 is simply not possible. The rear bolt and the rubbers won't allow you to bend down the arm that low. In that shot it almost looks like it is dangling down that low. This would only be possible if the cylinder in the rear rubber is allowed to move up and down several millimeters (or basically can make an angle of 40 degrees or so). But it can't. It has maybe half a millimeter play, not 5 or 10! Unless there are shim(?)rings below and above it, but I am pretty sure those rings are a welded part of the subframe.
BTW, I used MOOG control arms.

[martinrpeachey]

Firstly, your written english is superb, far better than most english people I know - well done

Now I know what you were saying about the bolt in the rear bush, it can be tricky. I'm trying to remember how I did it... I think I fitted the front bush with the bolts almost tight, then fitted the rear bush. I had to use a screwdriver to align the hole in the bush with the hole for the bolt and then tap the bolt in with a hammer. I then refitted the ball joint BUT I didn't remove the ball joint from the control arm - I removed it from the stub axle (hub) end. This makes it easier to fit it all together.

I will be doing some control arm rebuilds in the summer (for an S80) and I will do a full guide and post it here and on other forums.

Last time, it took me 1 hour per side to remove the wishbone, fit new rear bushes and reassemble it all. Hopefully I can share some handy tips.

[R-P]

Forgot to mention/stress that I have an AWD geartronic gearbox, which probably is a lot bigger than that shown in the vid, where you indeed seem to have ample space to even remove the bolts...

But if you don't remove the ball joint, you don't need to lever down the control arm as far. That makes sense. I thought attaching the ball joint onto the 'wheel' was a horrible job needing special Volvo tools, so I would never even have dared considering that...

I obviously saved the old control arms, but the bushes cost almost as much (50+euro) as a complete Moog control arm (84 euro rightside or 99leftside), that's why I went for the complete replacement. I'll keep them in stock just in case..

[martinrpeachey]

I would fit powerflex bushes to them and sell them on ebay for a good profit

[kdst5]

I changed the control arms some years back and the first side took me 2-3 hours but once I worked out how to do it the second side only took about a hour.

The big problem which seems to be common to everyone is how to get the control arm back into the ball joint. I struggled for several hours on the first side. The way I did this in the end was to use a 1 meter bar under the control arm and wrap 6mm wire around the bar and control arm to hold it in place. A 1 meter bar makes bending the control are down easy and the ball joint can then be placed in. I should also note that I did not undo the drive shaft bolt but was very careful not to pull on the drive shaft.

[NigeS]

If you can't lever the control arm down enough just whack some spring compressor on the spring that should reduce the overall height of the strut enough to slip that ball joint in.

Removing one of the drop link helps as that just fights back.

Martin, just a quick question. Is your car lowered?