Restoration Project Considerations - Any Thoughts??

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Steve 940

Ah, that touches a great point, I've been viewing quite a few online spray shop guides, you mention exhaust fans, from what I have garnered I think I need negative pressure within the garage to stop spray going outside, but not really sure how to achieve this in a diy garage with concrete floor.

Much as I would like 3 phase I think I'm sticking with single, and if needed in future I could go down that or phase converter route.

Cheers
Steve

I should qualify this by saying I know almost nothing about painting vehicles Steve. From what I recall from my time in the military, the H&S regulations (rightly) became so stringent that it became impossible for anything but base workshops to spray paint. When I joined the service (early 80s) most unit workshops would have set up a paint bay with hessian screens, no extraction or breathing apparatus, but that ended for good reason (it turns out the paint and solvents are quite harmful).

It is up to you of course, but I really wonder whether it makes sense for someone like yourself to attempt this at home? If you are only going to spray perhaps one car every year or two I can’t help thinking it would be much cheaper (and probably much better quality) to outsource this bit to a professional. You could of course just ignore the H&S requirements, no one is going to inspect you working in your own garage, but that may not be a good idea if you want to enjoy a long retirement in good health.

Just my thoughts.

Alan

[Steve 940]

Hi Alan,

Agree, and one of the many thoughts that have been twirling away in my mind.

As not having done a back to bare metal restoration before, I'm just trying to work out the process.

Assuming I get to having a bare shell on rotisserie suitably braced, its then onto sorting the removal of rusty metal. I had seen on a fantastic rebuild thread, can't recall at the moment if it was Mitch or Julaar now, where sections had been cut out and new metal fabricated and welded in, it had been coated in a blue coloured rust preventer.

Obviously any new metal let in, I would want to protect from surface rusting during the rebuild, and had been seeing various things like weld through primers etc etc. I'd been assuming spraying reapairs, as you you go, or should I be just brushing the coating on the shell repairs??

Once all repairs done, then seam seal, and then onto the main spraying where indeed your points about H&S are absolutely spot on, and I would take as much preventative measures as possible.

The idea of Envirostrip dipping process is looking more attractive, whilst costly, where basically it gets dipped prior to repairs, then once repairs are done, dipped again to remove any rust accumulated during structural repairs and coated ready for seam sealing and painting.

As I understand it, their process is heat based stripping, rather than acid dip, as I have seen so many articles about paint issues with acid leeching out of seams and damaging finishes. No idea if this is all just snake oil, but it just seems there's just so many ways to approach a restoration.

As always I suppose it comes down to what I want to achieve vs cost.

Cheers
Steve

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Steve 940

Hi Alan,

Agree, and one of the many thoughts that have been twirling away in my mind.

As not having done a back to bare metal restoration before, I'm just trying to work out the process.

Assuming I get to having a bare shell on rotisserie suitably braced, its then onto sorting the removal of rusty metal. I had seen on a fantastic rebuild thread, can't recall at the moment if it was Mitch or Julaar now, where sections had been cut out and new metal fabricated and welded in, it had been coated in a blue coloured rust preventer.

Obviously any new metal let in, I would want to protect from surface rusting during the rebuild, and had been seeing various things like weld through primers etc etc. I'd been assuming spraying reapairs, as you you go, or should I be just brushing the coating on the shell repairs??

Once all repairs done, then seam seal, and then onto the main spraying where indeed your points about H&S are absolutely spot on, and I would take as much preventative measures as possible.

The idea of Envirostrip dipping process is looking more attractive, whilst costly, where basically it gets dipped prior to repairs, then once repairs are done, dipped again to remove any rust accumulated during structural repairs and coated ready for seam sealing and painting.

As I understand it, their process is heat based stripping, rather than acid dip, as I have seen so many articles about paint issues with acid leeching out of seams and damaging finishes. No idea if this is all just snake oil, but it just seems there's just so many ways to approach a restoration.

As always I suppose it comes down to what I want to achieve vs cost.

Cheers
Steve

This is turning into a really useful thread Steve, many of us would like to do the sort of work you are proposing and this is exposing all sorts of very relevant issues.

I know nothing about any of the preventative processes you speak of, whenever I repair underneath motor cars I just brush paint things with gloopy Hammerite paint - but then I'm never attempting a show car finish.

Alan

[Burdekin]

Originally Posted by Steve 940

Hi Alan,

Agree, and one of the many thoughts that have been twirling away in my mind.

As not having done a back to bare metal restoration before, I'm just trying to work out the process.

Assuming I get to having a bare shell on rotisserie suitably braced, its then onto sorting the removal of rusty metal. I had seen on a fantastic rebuild thread, can't recall at the moment if it was Mitch or Julaar now, where sections had been cut out and new metal fabricated and welded in, it had been coated in a blue coloured rust preventer.

Obviously any new metal let in, I would want to protect from surface rusting during the rebuild, and had been seeing various things like weld through primers etc etc. I'd been assuming spraying reapairs, as you you go, or should I be just brushing the coating on the shell repairs??

Once all repairs done, then seam seal, and then onto the main spraying where indeed your points about H&S are absolutely spot on, and I would take as much preventative measures as possible.

The idea of Envirostrip dipping process is looking more attractive, whilst costly, where basically it gets dipped prior to repairs, then once repairs are done, dipped again to remove any rust accumulated during structural repairs and coated ready for seam sealing and painting.

As I understand it, their process is heat based stripping, rather than acid dip, as I have seen so many articles about paint issues with acid leeching out of seams and damaging finishes. No idea if this is all just snake oil, but it just seems there's just so many ways to approach a restoration.

As always I suppose it comes down to what I want to achieve vs cost.

Cheers
Steve

Don't dip the car, it takes all the paint off even in the areas you won't be able to paint, flash rusts, areas won't be neutalised and you will get rust worse than before.

Media blasting is much better but just do the bottom section. You'll rip off the rest of the paint with a non-woven disc on a grinder and a DA. Deox gel can be used to remove rust in hard to get areas.

When you are at the stage of painting etc hit me up and I can advise you what you need. Also the safety side of painting I can advise you on all that side as well. It's all straightforward but some of the 2k paints do contain isocyanates and they particularly are not to be messed with. Air fed mask, clean air supply, good ventilation and protecive clothing are all a must.

[Steve 940]

Hi All,

Many thanks for all your comments, and Mitch, much appreciated for the advice and offer, one I'm certain I will take you up on. Just need to get to that stage first😀

Alan, glad you find it useful, although I do feel a bit of a numpty raising these simple questions. Whilst I've read various classic car mags since early 80's, mainly Practical Classics, I feel I know the process, but I still don't really have a firm grip on getting the stages in the right order.

For example, if i go down the blasting route as Mitch suggested, perhaps blasting small areas at a time, then process would be??? blast, remove and let in new metal, apply rust converter to bare metal and in particular to any box sections, then a epoxy primer, move on to next section.

However, when moving to the next section, I'm just a bit concerned that any weld repairs may burn off or damage the protection applied in the previous stage.

If I blasted the whole underside at once though, as that would be easier and less messy in the long run, it would need spraying with a protection coat of some sort, but then wouldn't that cover up areas that may need work? I suppose after blasting and protecting, frilly areas would still be clearly apparent, but again I'd face problem of weld repairs burning previous coating off??

Perhaps I'm over thinking this....

Cheers
Steve

[Moomoo]

If the blasted underside were dry and indoors, I doubt any protective coating would be necessary !

[Burdekin]

Originally Posted by Steve 940

Hi All,

Many thanks for all your comments, and Mitch, much appreciated for the advice and offer, one I'm certain I will take you up on. Just need to get to that stage first😀

Alan, glad you find it useful, although I do feel a bit of a numpty raising these simple questions. Whilst I've read various classic car mags since early 80's, mainly Practical Classics, I feel I know the process, but I still don't really have a firm grip on getting the stages in the right order.

For example, if i go down the blasting route as Mitch suggested, perhaps blasting small areas at a time, then process would be??? blast, remove and let in new metal, apply rust converter to bare metal and in particular to any box sections, then a epoxy primer, move on to next section.

However, when moving to the next section, I'm just a bit concerned that any weld repairs may burn off or damage the protection applied in the previous stage.

If I blasted the whole underside at once though, as that would be easier and less messy in the long run, it would need spraying with a protection coat of some sort, but then wouldn't that cover up areas that may need work? I suppose after blasting and protecting, frilly areas would still be clearly apparent, but again I'd face problem of weld repairs burning previous coating off??

Perhaps I'm over thinking this....

Cheers
Steve

Hi Steve,

When I get some time I’ll write up some info but a lot also depends on the condition of the car. If media blasting you’re best just getting the bottom half of the car done and would then immediately coat this area with epoxy mastic primer. If going this route there would be no need for rust converters. Media blasting is the best prep for painting and epoxy mastic is the best primer for this area, it is very surface tolerant, seals the area so won’t rust, water proof and can go over old paint, steel and any paint can go over it. I’d then coat under the car (over the epoxy primer) with raptor Stonechip and 2k topcoat.

Weld repairs can be done after blasting and epoxy and then re-epoxy after repairs.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Steve 940

Hi All,

Many thanks for all your comments, and Mitch, much appreciated for the advice and offer, one I'm certain I will take you up on. Just need to get to that stage first😀

Alan, glad you find it useful, although I do feel a bit of a numpty raising these simple questions. Whilst I've read various classic car mags since early 80's, mainly Practical Classics, I feel I know the process, but I still don't really have a firm grip on getting the stages in the right order.

For example, if i go down the blasting route as Mitch suggested, perhaps blasting small areas at a time, then process would be??? blast, remove and let in new metal, apply rust converter to bare metal and in particular to any box sections, then a epoxy primer, move on to next section.

However, when moving to the next section, I'm just a bit concerned that any weld repairs may burn off or damage the protection applied in the previous stage.

If I blasted the whole underside at once though, as that would be easier and less messy in the long run, it would need spraying with a protection coat of some sort, but then wouldn't that cover up areas that may need work? I suppose after blasting and protecting, frilly areas would still be clearly apparent, but again I'd face problem of weld repairs burning previous coating off??

Perhaps I'm over thinking this....

Cheers
Steve

Hi Steve,

These aren't numpty questions at all: you will only retire once (probably) so this is something you want to get right. You will be constructing a garage/workshop of almost 50 m^2, which is going to cost around £30,000-£40,000 in build costs, so this would be a good time to make sure it meets your requirements. If you wanted to install a 2 post lift (I'd think that would be wonderful) then now would be a good time to specify a higher roof in at least part of the structure, if you intend to spray cars then it would be much cheaper to install the ventilation from the outset, the power requirements we have already discussed but you might want to think about compressed air, water, drainage, insulation, noise suppression and heating (water and space) as well.

I have always found (professionally) that it is best to work from your aim backwards to get to your requirement. If you will be renovating a motor car from bare metal every 6-12 months then something like Mitch's set up would be ideal - but I suppose the cost of fitting it out with tools and so on might be another £25,000 on top of the build costs. If on the other hand you intend to build yourself a show motor car over 5 years, and maybe another in a similar timescale then the Juular approach would be fine (we all take our hats off to Juular, what he achieves with quite austere facilities is more than a little remarkable). The Juular approach might only cost a couple of grand in tools and machinery, but you would have to outsource things like spray painting.

I'm certainly not telling you what you should spend your money on Steve, that is none of my business.

This is an exciting project and many of us are very jealous!

Good fortune,

Alan

[Steve 940]

Originally Posted by Othen

Hi Steve,

These aren't numpty questions at all: you will only retire once (probably) so this is something you want to get right. You will be constructing a garage/workshop of almost 50 m^2, which is going to cost around £30,000-£40,000 in build costs, so this would be a good time to make sure it meets your requirements. If you wanted to install a 2 post lift (I'd think that would be wonderful) then now would be a good time to specify a higher roof in at least part of the structure, if you intend to spray cars then it would be much cheaper to install the ventilation from the outset, the power requirements we have already discussed but you might want to think about compressed air, water, drainage, insulation, noise suppression and heating (water and space) as well.

I have always found (professionally) that it is best to work from your aim backwards to get to your requirement. If you will be renovating a motor car from bare metal every 6-12 months then something like Mitch's set up would be ideal - but I suppose the cost of fitting it out with tools and so on might be another £25,000 on top of the build costs. If on the other hand you intend to build yourself a show motor car over 5 years, and maybe another in a similar timescale then the Juular approach would be fine (we all take our hats off to Juular, what he achieves with quite austere facilities is more than a little remarkable). The Juular approach might only cost a couple of grand in tools and machinery, but you would have to outsource things like spray painting.

I'm certainly not telling you what you should spend your money on Steve, that is none of my business.

This is an exciting project and many of us are very jealous!

Good fortune,

Alan

Think I'm more of a tightwad than you Alan😀😀 my budget for garage extension is only circa £10-£15k, as I'll be doing all the work myself. The only thing I will need to outsource is the roof trusses with raised collar ties to maximise headspace, as the span is around 7m.

I intend to concrete the floor with some nice thick (10"-12") areas reinforced just in case I might want to add a lift, but think it would get in the way so would not buy at the outset.

I don't at the moment envisage doing another full restoration, other than keeping my 940 on the go, plus the better halfs, but then again I do have a hankering for a nice little pre war Morris 8👍

Cheers
Steve

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Steve 940

Think I'm more of a tightwad than you Alan😀😀 my budget for garage extension is only circa £10-£15k, as I'll be doing all the work myself. The only thing I will need to outsource is the roof trusses with raised collar ties to maximise headspace, as the span is around 7m.

I intend to concrete the floor with some nice thick (10"-12") areas reinforced just in case I might want to add a lift, but think it would get in the way so would not buy at the outset.

I don't at the moment envisage doing another full restoration, other than keeping my 940 on the go, plus the better halfs, but then again I do have a hankering for a nice little pre war Morris 8👍

Cheers
Steve

That is only £200-£300 per square meter Steve, you will do well to bring the project in at that price. Perhaps start a project thread for the garage/workshop build? I'd be interested to read of it, and I think others would be as well.

Good fortune,

Alan