Trans slippage (common issue) is dealer trying to rip me off

[tmoyer42]

I have a 2009 S60 with 60k miles that I purchased a year ago. Trans has the 2-3 and 3-4 slip/flare, not very bad, but it might be getting worse. I've already had the fluid replaced and the B4 servo cover replaced, and now I'm going to take it in for the TCM software update and adaptive learning.

From what I've read and found after calling independent mechanics locally, only the dealership has access to the software for the TCM upgrade so local shops can't do that. I get that, not surprising.

I called the dealer and told them I just want the software update, and they immediately tried to tell me they have to do diagnostics as well to make sure that is the problem (obvious up-sell attempt). I said no, just do the update. Then I was told the adaptive learning process is very expensive as well, and was given a quote of around $450-500 (US).

My question is, after reading other's experience with this, is that the adaptive learning is just driving the car at normal operating pace/speed/driving for several miles. The dealer is saying that there are special prompts and procedures to get the adaptive learning to calibrate properly. Are they trying to pad the bill by trying to tell me that only they can set the adaptive learning?

[mcfe]

There really are special procedures.

The question I have for you is are you slipping within the gears or before the gear engages? Very important.

[tmoyer42]

Originally Posted by mcfe

The question I have for you is are you slipping within the gears or before the gear engages? Very important.

When shifting from 2-3 or 3-4 (or reverse downshifting) it doesn't feel like it's going into neutral, but as if the clutch is half engaged for a second or two, then fully engages the next gear. It happens in either full auto or manual mode. Its not a hard clunk or severe jolt.

Also, when in 4th and just coasting (35-40 mph), if I apply the throttle, the revs go up a few hundred RPM (again as if the clutch is half engaged) for a few seconds before fully engaging and accelerating, staying in the same gear (usually 4th).

[mcfe]

I am just wondering if you are in need of a new valve body. For $500 or just a bit more you get a brand new one that with very few modifications will go in, provided, that your clutch packs are not actually worn(same with torque converter clutch).

How are you measuring which gear the auto is in? It can be very misleading and difficult to differentiate between a downshift and the torque converter unlocking.

For instance I have built a tool very similar to CFE that gives me all this information in real time.

[stuart bowes]

to be honest for a few hundred quid if the issues are that bad I probably would just pay up, at least you know the software is done which only they can do

And then I would guess they do the adaptations on rollers which means they can pay more attention to the procedures required rather than having to slow down when someone pulls in front of you and messing it up and starting all over again etc

[tmoyer42]

Originally Posted by mcfe

I am just wondering if you are in need of a new valve body. For $500 or just a bit more you get a brand new one that with very few modifications will go in, provided, that your clutch packs are not actually worn(same with torque converter clutch).

Is there a way to know if the valve body is the offender without replacing it? Will it have any codes set? If I replace the valve body, will the TCM need reprogramming/updated again (as well as the adaptive learning)?

Both mechanics I've taken this to, including the dealership, told me they didn't notice any issues, which has me hesitant to take it to either since the issue is not intermittent. So either they lied and didn't even drive the car or they aren't bothered to help keep ahead of the problem and only want me to come in for diagnostics and repairs if it totally fails.

Originally Posted by mcfe

How are you measuring which gear the auto is in? It can be very misleading and difficult to differentiate between a downshift and the torque converter unlocking.

For instance I have built a tool very similar to CFE that gives me all this information in real time.

I pay attention to gears and it is obvious to me when it shifts in auto. I'm the kind of person who knows when/where shifts occur as I'm driving. I can try to record some video to illustrate the issue, since I know it can be difficult to describe some things.

If I bought a money pit, I need to know now, not after I've tried multiple things to diagnose only to find it's the most expensive fix required.

[mcfe]

All trans issues are valve body issues at first. The valve body is the first to go. These gearboxes are programmed with very specific pressures in mind and do not contain oil pressure sensors, once the oil is not changed in time, or the gearbox is consistently driven > 100c temps, the oil loses it's nice lubrication properties and contributes to mechanical wear as the pressures have deviated. From there the shifting becomes wonky, and starts to wear out clutches. As the clutches wear out, material is let loose to circulate in the gearbox, most is caught in the filter clogging it, the other material is fine metal dust that circulates through solenoids, clogging them causing sticky solenoids etc.

[tmoyer42]

Originally Posted by stuart bowes

to be honest for a few hundred quid if the issues are that bad I probably would just pay up, at least you know the software is done which only they can do

And then I would guess they do the adaptations on rollers which means they can pay more attention to the procedures required rather than having to slow down when someone pulls in front of you and messing it up and starting all over again etc

I didn't consider they could put it on rollers so I guess that makes a little more sense for the cost. I was under the impression that just driving it normally for several miles in normal traffic was sufficient for the adaptive learning.

Thanks for that insight.

[Simmy]

no setting the adaptions is a comprehensive set amount of start stops acceleration in all the various gears while watching vida it is very difficult to do if there is any traffic about i had to go out to a quiet area at 4 am to be able to do this on the road.